Former federal prosecutor Shan Wu clashed with former Trump payroll lawyer William Brennan on CNN Thursday, following a contentious day of cross-examination in which Trump attorney Todd Blanche raised possible discrepancies about the purpose of a phone call in 2016 that Michael Cohen had said was about hush payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
"I think it was a good cross-exam moment, but the mere fact that you scream at the witness doesn't mean that you've won the point on cross-examination," said Wu. "A lot of people mistake that as the dramatic moment, meaning that has some substance to it. It doesn't. I mean, this is something that could be quite easily addressed on redirect. From a jury standpoint, one thing to remember too, is the extent you see Cohen leaning back in the chair or thinking to himself, you know, not really sure. That's actually not the hallmark of a pathological liar. The pathological liar doesn't reconsider the accuracy. They just like totally lean into it. That may actually have the opposite effect on the jury. They may think he's actually thinking carefully. He is trying to be accurate."
"Shan, are you saying that the jury might — I don't know what's going to happen — the jury might take, years and years and years of documented lies, he lies, he lies about the lies he told, he lies some more, and because he leaned back in his chair and Blanche yelled at them, they may say, oh, we're going to wipe that away?" said Brennan. "I don't think so!"
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"Not because Blanche yelled at them," said Wu. "But this whole characterization of Cohen as being, like, the worst witness ever, it's just silly, Bill."
"Well, the worst liar ever," Brennan shot back.
"That's even sillier!" exclaimed Wu, laughing. "There's so many more people in court. How about an enforcer from the mob who's killed people?"
"Let's, let's use that," said Brennan. "Sammy Gravano ... he killed nineteen people. But he wasn't a liar. What he brought to the table was, I'm an enforcer, I'm a multi-murderer. This guy is a lying liar who just lies about everything he says, and credibility is the currency of a jury trial. And people don't like to be conned!"
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Shan Wu and William Brennan spar over Michael Cohen testimony www.youtube.com
