IT was a weekend which brought the opposite of bragging rights. More like unbragging rights.
But there is one thing on which Tottenham and Manchester United fans will be agreed – their teams are BOTH in a mess.
Spurs’ pitiful capitulation at Brighton, suggesting Mauricio Pochettino’s side had simply not recovered mentally from their mauling by Bayern Munich, was a Saturday lunchtime horror show.
There was no impetus, no pressure, no passion, no conviction.
It was a throwback to the bad old days, pre-Poch Tottenham.
When they were not just “soft Spurs” but “very soft Spurs”.
There are big issues, bigger questions, that have to be resolved, with the onus on Daniel Levy to make a decision.
The Spurs chairman has been the beneficiary of Pochettino’s handiwork but failed, or was unable, to heed the warnings the Argentine was spelling out for public consumption in the summer of 2018.
Pochettino recognised that he had got pretty much everything out of his players 15 months ago.
Remarkably, he was able to squeeze a little bit more from the pulp last term, with that fourth place finish and Champions League Final appearance.
But Pochettino saw the dying of the light in Toby Alderweireld two years ago.
Was happy to let Danny Rose go for two straight summers.
Was waiting for someone to make a bid for Christian Eriksen through June, July and August.
And decided something was awry with Jan Vertonghen from the moment he reported back for pre-season training.
All of them still at the club and in his first team squad. None of them performing anywhere near the required or expected level.
It seems abundantly clear that some of Pochettino’s most trusted and long-term troops have stopped listening to his voice.
That, or they just cannot play his way any more, drained by four years of intensity.
But it is why Levy must make that big call.
Either back the manager and allow him to begin the overdue renewal process now, by making big changes and taking the short-term hit, or call a halt to all of it – and watch Pochettino walk into the grateful hands of another club in a matter of weeks.
Yet while Spurs are in trouble, United look like a team and a club in complete crisis.
Eight points from eight games, already 16 points adrift of Liverpool – who will come calling, ravenous to feed on the United carcase, in the first game after the international break.
More worrying, a side that seems to have no heart or soul. That is going through the motions.
That level of failure was evident at Newcastle on Sunday, a display that had some United fans genuinely worrying if, like the side that was taken over by Tommy Docherty mid-way through the 1972-73 season, might actually be heading out of the top flight.
That seems unlikely. Then again, the same fears prompted the Chelsea board to sack Jose Mourinho a couple of hours after the Chelsea Christmas party in 2016.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer may not even get to celebrate Thanksgiving with the Glazers, let alone Christmas, the way things are going.
Solskjaer may have had sound reasons for letting Romelu Lukaku go – getting rid of Alexis Sanchez was, despite everything else, a no-brainer – but the failure to get a replacement in first bonkers.
Marcus Rashford is clearly struggling for confidence and behind him United looked listless and lightweight, far too easily shoved aside by Newcastle’s Longstaff brothers.
If performance is not there, attitude has to be. Both Spurs and United were a million miles off.
Both are in trouble, no question.
It is hard to believe both Pochettino and Solskjaer will still be in their current jobs by the turn of the year.