Ten days after President Biden’s disastrous debate against Donald Trump, Washington congressman Adam Smith called on Biden to drop his reelection campaign. The ranking Democrat on the powerful Armed Services Committee, Smith was one of the most senior members of his party to take that leap. “The idea that we are going to slow-walk into fascism because we don’t want to hurt somebody that we respect’s feelings — I cannot even begin to tell you how angry that makes me,” he said at the time. Since then, efforts to get Biden off the ticket have waxed and waned, but Biden’s critics, who include Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, now have momentum. I spoke with Smith on Thursday night about what he thinks will happen next, why he doesn’t favor a “mini-convention,” and how Democrats got into this jam in the first place.
Suddenly, the momentum to get Biden out of the race has gained a lot of force. This looks like a coordinated effort among party leaders, including even Barack Obama. Do you think it ends with Biden dropping out? Are you more confident on that point than you were a couple of days ago?
Yes, more so than I was a couple of days ago, to be sure. And I think there is a coordinated effort that’s happening. I know some of the details, but I don’t know all of them. It seems to be where this is headed, but it’s not 100 percent there yet, is my take.
Is Hakeem Jeffries taking the temperature of members, or has the rank and file not been so involved in this?
I think the rank and file has been pretty involved. Nancy Pelosi has played a huge role as well because relationships are so key at this point. She has them more so than Hakeem does, but Hakeem has been involved as well.
It seemed like a big turning point came when Pelosi went on Morning Joe about a week ago and made those cagey comments about Biden. Did that give people a permission slip to speak out?
I think it helped. But to that point, I had been having a lot of private conversations with a lot of people, and I’d been worried that all this private stuff wasn’t getting us anywhere because part of the message from the Biden campaign team that was determined to keep him in at any cost was “If this was such a big problem, how come nobody’s saying anything publicly?”
The timelines are so hard to keep track of, but there had been a shift like three, four days ago in my conversations. I had been talking to people and it was “Oh gosh, this is terrible. What are we going to do?” And it was frustrating to me because I was like, “Well, you could say something.” There was a subtle shift where people started trying to argue, “Oh, at this point, I just think Joe Biden’s probably the best person.” And nothing had really changed in those two days except the calculation in the minds of my colleagues that, Okay, if this is inevitable, I’ve got to find a way to get on the right side of it. And that worried me.
You’re saying they were talking themselves into this reality.
Correct. Well, they were talking themselves into it, but also they were accepting it. And I don’t mean that in a denigrating sort of way. I mean, frankly, that’s what I did two years ago. So I mean, who am I? “He who is without sin casts the first stone.” I always had my doubts about having someone who was going to be 81 at the time of the election be the head of the ticket. But I talked around, and people with far more power than I were like, “Nope, this is what we’re doing.” Been there, done that, if you will, and I think a lot of other people did, too. And then Nancy and others at least gave them a second to go, Okay, maybe we don’t have to hold hands and jump off the cliff.
So I presume there were a lot of people who agreed with you but weren’t saying anything publicly.
Correct
We’re still up to only 20 members of Congress who have actually called for Biden to drop out, even as the momentum has been shifting rapidly in that direction. Why haven’t more Democrats come out and said it in the past two days?
Well, Adam Schiff helped. But No. 1 — look, why I’ve chosen to get involved and why I’m going to stay more involved in the national dialogue is I think I have an approach that is different from some of the political elites in my party and I want to begin to more aggressively advocate for that approach. There’s too much go-along-to-get-along within the Democratic Party. I’ve never had the best relationship with Democratic White Houses, and I thought about this a little bit. The thing is, I’m helpful. I am. But when I talk to them directly, I’m also occasionally critical, and they do not like that.
That’s insane to me because I’m a congressman too, and I could easily surround myself with people who kiss my ass all day. I don’t want that because I want to be stress tested. I want to know what the challenges are. I want to know when I’m wrong. But they’re not like that, and that culture, I think, has spread so far that people think it’s just not worth it to go criticizing the president and get whatever fallout they could get from that. It’s a risk-averse approach. I think that’s what has kept people quiet. Now, I think a lot of people are thinking, Well, if it’s going to happen anyway, it’s a win-win. We get to the result we need, and I don’t look like I caused any problems.
You were one of the first to say Biden should leave the race. Did you get flak directly from the White House for that?
They ignored me. They didn’t take me seriously, didn’t think I was worth their time. Which is fine. I’ve had a few colleagues who have been critical. Some, well, one in particular has criticized me behind the scenes: “Why is Adam doing this? He’s hurting the ticket. Biden’s our nominee. We should be doing this.” But look, I’ve never, never been a guy who’s that wired into the White House in the first place, so it’s not like, Oh my gosh, I won’t get invited onto Air Force One.
Do you think Biden should simply not run for reelection, or should he resign?
Simply not run for reelection. He should not resign. He’s capable of doing the job as president. He’s smart, he’s got experience, he’s got a good team. And the physical stuff — it’s not as demanding if you’re not running a campaign at the same time.
You’ve said in other interviews that you would prefer Kamala Harris to ascend to the top of the ticket. If Biden does drop out, do you think that’s the most likely outcome?
Yes. Now, I’ve also said, going back to my comments about how we need to stress test things a little bit and be critical, that I don’t think she should be anointed. I think she should go to the delegates and say, “Here’s my case, here’s why I think I should be the nominee,” and then the delegates should decide. It’s going to be up to the delegates. It’s not up to me. But if you ask me about the options out there, I think she’d be the best person and she gives us the strongest chance to win. But I don’t believe in all this anointing bullshit. You got to go earn it, and frankly, it’s just not a good look to make it look like you’re putting your thumb on the scale. If you’re capable enough, get out there and you’ll get the votes and everything will be fine.
So you don’t buy the argument that the mini-primary bake-off approach would be too chaotic with only three months left.
Well, don’t misunderstand me. I don’t support some sort of mini-primary organized structure. There are roughly 4,000 delegates. When Biden says he’s not running, those 4,000 delegates are up for grabs. If you think you’re the person who should be the Democratic nominee for president, then get on the phone and go make your case to those delegates. We’ll see who stands up and says they’re going to do it or they’re not going to do it. It’s a tough situation if you’re somebody not named Kamala Harris and you’re interested in doing that — how do you start a presidential campaign from absolute scratch with a week or two to go? But I think we’ve got a ton of talent in the party; then we’d have a VP spot that’s open, and people can also then have a discussion with the delegates. Kamala, if she does get there, can have the discussion about who among them to pick.
I’m seeing all these anonymous quotes around about how bleak the mood is in the Democratic caucus about what’s going on — of course, partly because Biden’s unpopularity may affect down-ballot races, or there’s an expectation that they will. Do you find the mood among your colleagues to be that dark and pessimistic right now?
If Biden turns out to be the nominee, yes. If he’s not, hallelujah, there’s an opportunity. No, it’s not a given, and the Republican Party has certainly had some breaks recently, but I think we would have an energized campaign. And lost in all the drama of Biden’s situation and the attempted assassination of Donald Trump is that Trump is still Trump. He’s still the guy who tried to overthrow our government. He’s still the guy who’s a 34-time convicted felon. He’s still the guy who was found in civil court to have raped a woman. He’s still the guy who is promising massive increases in tariffs that will raise taxes on working people all across this country, while massively cutting taxes for wealthy corporations. He’s still the guy who led us into the gutter during COVID, and the Democratic Party are still the people who let us out. He’s still the guy who lies like most people breathe. There is still a very strong anti-MAGA majority in this country. We simply need to wake ’em up and go to work.
And we’ve got time. As Jon Stewart pointed out, the British held an election in two months. The French held two elections in one month! And by the way, the elections the French held in one month swung wildly during the course of that month. So there’s plenty of time.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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