Macall Polay
Writer-director James Mangold remembers exactly where he was and what he was doing five years ago when he decided to make a Bob Dylan biopic.
He was in a hotel room in Canada for the Toronto International Film Festival when he paused prepping for the world premiere of his 2019 movie "Ford v Ferrari" to take a meeting with Timothée Chalamet, then a young actor on the cusp of superstardom.
It didn't take long for Mangold to realize he'd found his Dylan. By the time Chalamet left the room, the two agreed to make a movie on the life and times of one of the most beloved singer-songwriters in American music.
Things might not have gotten off the ground as quickly as they'd hoped — COVID happened, Chalamet went and made the first "Dune" movie, Mangold made "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny" — but throughout those five years, the two continued to stay in contact and made separate pilgrimages to see Dylan.
Finally, "A Complete Unknown," which depicts Dylan's rise to fame alongside Joan Baez (Monica Barbaro) and his controversial switch from acoustic guitar to electric in the mid-1960s, is in theaters.
Mangold is one of the few directors working today who has the skill and Hollywood studio experience to pull off a Bob Dylan biopic. After finding success with his 2005 Johnny Cash biopic "Walk the Line," which earned its stars Joaquin Phoenix an Oscar nomination and Reese Witherspoon an Oscar win, Disney's Searchlight Pictures arm knew the project was in capable hands.
"A Complete Unknown" is not a carbon copy of "Walk the Line." While the latter delved deep into the dynamic between Johnny Cash and June Carter, "A Complete Unknown," which Mangold co-wrote with Jay Cocks ("Gangs of New York"), examines the myth-building of Dylan and how his talents elevated the 1960s folk music scene.
But just as Mangold used "Walk the Line" as a showcase for Phoenix's talents, he's done the same with Chalamet in "A Complete Unknown." From talking in Dylan's voice even when the camera wasn't rolling to doing his own singing and even growing out his fingernails (more on that later), Chalamet immersed himself in the aura of Dylan, resulting in the best performance his career so far.
Business Insider spoke to Mangold over Zoom about Chalamet's dedication to the role, whether the disappointing box office for "Dial of Destiny" has made him hesitant about developing his upcoming "Star Wars" movie, and if he thinks Bob Dylan will ever watch "A Complete Unknown."
Macall Polay/Searchlight Pictures
Business Insider: You've now had sit-downs with Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan while making their biopics. Have you developed a go-to icebreaker for when you first meet legends?
James Mangold: No. I don't have one. But the good thing is the script is the icebreaker. They've invited me into their homes or their spaces because they've read a script I've written. So we have something to talk about. I mean, when I met with Bob the ice breaker was, charmingly, him waxing poetic about loving my old movie "Cop Land." So that in itself was trippy and flattering.
Do you think Dylan will ever watch "A Complete Unknown"?
I have no idea.
What's your gut telling you?
I honestly have no idea. The reality is I spent a lot of good time with him and I felt like I got a good feeling for him. He does things when he's ready, he gets involved with things when he's ready, he makes comments when he's ready.
I sympathize with his quandary. Do I ever want to watch a movie where some dude is playing me and acting out significant moments in my life? Is that going to be nothing but pleasant or is it going to be weird as hell? So the fact that he took the time to read my script, give me notes, give me advice, chip in ideas, show me where he would make lifts in some songs, and give me the benefit of his wisdom and his insight about that period so I might even dig deeper into those scenes, that was a huge gift and all the generosity I could ever expect from him.
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Watching D.A. Pennebaker's Bob Dylan documentary, "Dont Look Back," confirmed something that's in your movie: Dylan had some gnarly fingernails.
Yeah.
Did Timmy grow those out or were fake nails put on him?
Yeah, he was growing them. If you look earlier in the movie, there are some scenes where they aren't as long. By the end, he had some full-on Nosferatu going on.
A lot has been written about Timmy being Method during filming, specifically speaking in the Dylan voice when you weren't shooting. I would imagine a lot of that has to do with him just not wanting to lose the voice, right?
Timmy's not the only person who's ever done that, that's true for most of the actors in my movies doing dialects, they don't just do it and fall out of it the second the scene ends because —
There's a fear of losing the voice.
Well, you're also trying to make it more and more internalized. You're trying to make it something you don't have to think about. So, if you're turning it on and off, you're kind of making yourself hyper-aware of it. If you're just deciding to live in it, that's a whole other deal.
Boyd Holbrook plays Johnny Cash in the movie. Was there ever a thought to call Joaquin Phoenix to see if he would do the Johnny Cash scenes?
The thought occurred to me, but then I realized he'd be 20-30 years too old to be playing the part.
But you know movie magic, James! The hair and makeup department would have helped him look younger.
Okay, but then what am I servicing? This kind of meta-movie universe stuff that has plagued us enough? I'm a big fan of making a movie and giving the public the movie. Don't try to suture the movie to another movie, just own it. Otherwise movies just become this hyper-expensive television series in which we never stop making new episodes every couple of years.
Speaking of episodic films, you're currently developing a "Star Wars" movie. Are you less confident working on that seeing what happened with the reception for "Dial of Destiny"?
Well, "Dial of Destiny" has an 87% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, yes, they would have hoped it made more money, but I actually don't have a lot of shame about a movie that's liked by 87% of its fans.
The issue with "Star Wars" isn't my worrying about if there's an angry or resentful group that is somehow disappointed in what I did in "Dial of Destiny." Honestly, that's their prerogative, that's part of what makes movies great is you can think they're awesome or you can think they're terrible. I can't please everyone and I'm sorry they don't like it.
But in relation to "Star Wars," the bottom line is I don't even know if that's the next movie for me. That's something that Beau Willimon and I are working on writing and all the other tripwires and judgments along the way. I don't want to make it unless it's excellent.
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
