Well Chris did ask for the liberal use of fanposts. So is it too big a liberty to invite a fairly meaningless across the ages "who's the greatest" discussion? Have we had this discussion before? Probably, but Cav has retired now so it seems fair to revisit. Is the answer too obvious? I didn't think so but the British media I've been watching and reading lately has routinely introduced Sir Mark as "cycling's greatest ever sprinter" as a matter of fact. And the unqualified repetition of that has started to irritate me. But it is a question I have pondered many a time over the last decade or so. And perhaps now is the time to seek a consensus, particularly given this is the last chance to hear the views of the cafe. This is rushed and poorly researched. But I don't think it matters as any of you interested enough to comment will be able to fill in the blanks.
I'm just the right age to have followed both these guys' careers from close to the start. In the early 90s in the UK it was established fact that Abdoujaparov was the world's greatest sprinter until Cycling Weekly started whispering about this Italian guy that rode the Giro and wasn't that bothered about the Tour but claimed to be better than Abdu. Surely he wasn't serious. Oh, but he was. And when he showed up in France, Cipollini was the conquering hero and the pantomime villain rolled into one. Dominating the sprints and the podiums with his massive ego and showmanship. I was always a big fan (of his cycling career). With Mark, similarly, he first hit my consciousness sometime in the early naughties when his name started popping up in Cycling Weekly on reports from around the British circuit. Then in 2006 he burst onto the screen winning the scratch race at the commonwealth game. That's the first time I saw him ride. It wasn't until 2008 though, by which time his sprint wins in Northern Europe were starting to pile up that I really started to pay attention. I remember working in a hospital in Newry in Northern Ireland and there was this tiny staff room either no one knew about or wanted to go to. I worked out though that the TV there had eurosport and so snuck off for a sly break just in time to watch the final kms of the first sprint stage of that Giro. I wasn't disappointed as Mark delivered then did so again and again before gifting one to his lead out guy, Andre Greipel. I was very impressed.
So firstly, I don't think there is much controversy in saying these are the two best sprinters in cycling history. By all means correct me if I'm wrong. I thought of Freddie Maertens, Abdu, Zabel, Sagan or Petachhi maybe but none of them really have a palmares to compare. So I'm sticking to analysing these two, largely using PCS and memory.
Mark has 165 career wins and Mario 163. That's effectively all square really. Both had similarly impressive longevity.
Cav has 35 Tour stage wins, a record, we know this. Cipo has 12.
Cipo has 42 Giro stage wins. A record that may well last longer than Cav's Tour record if Pogi cracks on (that guy really needs to crack on a bit). Cav has 17.
They both have 3 Vuelta stages.
So that gives Mario the most GT stage wins overall thanks to his years of domination at the Giro. However, Mark has won the points classification in all 3 including 2 green jerseys a decade apart. Quite the feat. Mario has 3 Giro points classifications but nothing from France and Spain. Mark also has those big sprint victories on the Champs Elysees as well as the one in Rome last year. Sure, Mario could have won a green jersey and a Paris stage somewhere along the lines. But it seems it was never important enough to him to make the effort through the Alps and Pyrenees.
Finally, on GTs, Mark has worn the leader jersey in all 3 races. Mario has an impressive collection of yellow and pink jerseys but never led the Vuelta.
In one day races they both have a Worlds road race and an MSR. Beyond that Mario has 3 Gent Wevelgems. Wow. That's the one that got away for Cav. He got close one year but Freire outgunned him in the sprint. Thereafter it got harder for out and out sprinters to win GW. Cav has never won a classic in that tier just beneath the monuments. Well that's maybe a matter of opinion. For me there are just a few races that fall slightly short of monument status (semi-monuments??). GW, E3, FW, SB, Amstel, maybe PT once upon a time. But Cav does have 3 Schelderprijs, 2 KBKs and 1 Milano Torino to Cipo's 2 Schelderprijs.
Cav has won the odd relatively minor stage race like Qatar and Dubai. Also 2 British Champs. Cipo won the Italian champs in 96.
That's most of the stats that seem meaningful I think. There is nuance of course. Cipollini and the Saeco team either invented or perfected the formula for winning sprint stages with one team dominating the final and delivering their guy to the win. Sure. HTC followed suit maybe from 2008 through 2011 but it became much harder to do so there after with more and more teams vying for space at the front. Still, Cav was piloted to the front by one of a few significant lead out guys often, throughout his career. Often but not always. He had to freelance a fair bit as well, not least for his final victory. There were some stylish wins. All from memory so sorry about the lacking detail. There were a couple where he had to clip off the front early before the sprint really started. MSR and one Tour stage I recall where he had to catch the splintering breakaway. One with 1km of uphill at the end and no one was talking about him (2012?). I think he edged out Gilbert or Evans or the likes. There was the stage with a cat 2 climb 15km or so out where his HTC guys brought him back to the front. The echelon stage win. His 2nd national champs - impressively holding a strong select group of 4 together on a hilly circuit with frequent attacks threatening his chances. Mark had great race craft. He also won 1 TT. A 4km prologue at Romandie. The problem is I can't really vouch for Cipollini's versatility or lack of. I only had access to watch the Tour back then. Those wins were formulaic but he couldn't have been entirely a 1 trick pony fair weather winner. The guy won 3 Gent Wevelgems.
Nicknames? The Lion King vs The Manx Missile. Call it a draw. They both had massive egos of course and colourful if differing personalities. Perhaps those differences were most obvious at the 2008 Tour of California. Mario had embarked on a Lancesque poorly thought through career appendix and was set off ahead of Mark in the TT. On catching Cipo Cav decided to unclip and ride past one footed smiling. Expecting Mario to enjoy the joke... He didn't. But, hey, this is the guy that turned up on a Tour podium dressed as Caesar. It's not like he always took himself too seriously (or did he??...).
Rivals is an interesting one. When Cav went to his second Tour (after those Giro wins I mentioned) I remember pondering whether he was already the best sprinter in the world. The name I came up with if he wasn't was Dani Bennati. So no surprise really when Mark started winning Tour stages. Now, Bennati was great and all but he was no Marcel Kittel. Cav probably had a few years there where the competition was thin. Probably those 4 years when he won 20 Tour stages. Greipel was there after he left the team but Greipel was a slow burner I'd say. Not really peaking until 2014. Now Cav had some big competition from 2012 on for sure. Kittel, Greipel, Sagan, Ewan, Wout, Philipsen and so on. Cipollini always had strong rivals though in my memory. From Abdu and Nelissen in the early 90s, Blijlevens, Lugwig, Zabel, Steels, Mcewen, Alijet, Boonen. So perhaps Cav got a slightly easier ride in those early years. But if that is true, almost certainly, Mario had similar in the Giro through the 90s. Pre world tour and most of the top level teams and riders weren't riding all year and all over the way they are these days. The Giro fields were thinner. Silvio Martinello anyone (great rider - not Tom Steels)?
Is it fair to mention track? It was never Mario's thing. Is it fair not to mention track? It's a big part of Mark's legacy. 3 Madison Worlds stretched over 11 years, 1 Gent 6 day victory, an Olympic silver and a Commonwealth gold are some highlights.
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, Cipo's career coincided with the EPO era. Well I'm not really interested in that angle but I know others may be. Whatever. I'm sure there were options available during Mark's career for anyone that may have wanted them.
Reading it all through, though, I still think it is more debatable than the current UK narrative would suggest. And the thing is, I really want to know the view of the cafe on this matter. Which is why I'm asking the question so late in the day.
So, Mark or Mario? You decide.
