Netflix
True crime has exploded in popularity in the past decade, and it's the people behind the scenes, like Zoe Hines, who find the stories that get audiences talking.
As a director and producer on the team at Transistor Films that makes the Netflix docuseries "I Am A Killer," Hines has interviewed 13 killers, from those convicted of murder to manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter, in multiple maximum-security prisons across the United States.
Over the course of her 12-year career, she has also spoken to over 100 inmates for other shows, including "I Am A Stalker" and Discovery ID's "Women in Prison."
In each episode of "I Am A Killer," which has been running for five seasons, an inmate discusses their motive, how they feel about their crime, and whether prison has changed them. Hines and her team interview each inmate twice, for one hour.
Zoe Hines
"We want to tell both the inmate's version of events and the perspectives of law enforcement and the families and those impacted by the crime," Hines told Business Insider.
The interviewees featured on the show include Gary Black, who was given a life sentence in 1998 after stabbing Jason Johnson, a stranger, in the neck at a convenience store in Missouri.
Another, Jamel Hatcher, was given a 20-year sentence in 2005 after shooting Danielle Boone, his girlfriend, at his home in Ohio.
Transistor Films
Finding the right subjects for the interviews is "incredibly labor intensive," Hines said, as the team must navigate each state's prison system, from finding inmates on databases to being granted access.
Once the team finds an inmate with an interesting story who is not involved in legal proceedings (avoiding mass killers and sexual abusers to prevent copycats and glorifying such crimes), they exchange written letters with them for several months. Next, they arrange an interview through the relevant state's Department of Corrections.
"You are looking for a point of interest, whether that's the inmate themselves and their journey and whether they have grappled with what they've done and the remorse associated with it, or whether it's the judicial process that they've been through, the legal process, that can often be a subject in and of itself. So it never fails to surprise us, the breadth of human stories," Hines said.
I'm sat opposite this person who has done this horrendous thing, who admits they've done this horrendous thing.
In Texas, for instance, a person can be convicted of murder if they are a bystander.
Hines said: "The title of the show is 'I Am a Killer.' So the most important thing for story selection is that the incarcerated person accepts some responsibility for taking that person's life."
She said she is often asked what it's like to speak to murderers and stalkers, and who was the scariest. But she said the team is usually preoccupied with the mundane when they arrive at a prison, like following regulations and making sure they have the right equipment to capture the conversation. That's if the interview hasn't been canceled at the last minute because of the inmate's behavior.
"The process of getting in front of them is so intense in itself that you go into this procedural headspace," she said.
"Once you're actually in the visiting area with the inmate, that world shrinks down to the two of you," she added. "And then there's a really equally intense, but very different set of feelings because then it's the case of, 'okay, I'm sat opposite this person who has done this horrendous thing, who admits they've done this horrendous thing, who has subsequently been through the judicial process of being judged for that.'"
Transistor Films/Netflix
Hines said it's a "privilege" to speak to someone you have never met and "instantly be talking about the worst thing that person's ever done and the lowest point of their lives is, and knowing you've only got an hour."
The next challenge is steering the conversation so the team gets the right information for the episode while respecting the person and their story. This involves spending the first few minutes gaining their trust.
"I think the longest I got in was 50 minutes of the hour before the chap I was speaking to had spoken about the crime he committed. So that was quite sweaty," Hines said.
The second interview can be "confronting and complicated," she said, as the team presents what they have learned about the crime from their research.
"We really, really pride ourselves on not being 'gotcha' journalism. We're not trying to catch people out," she said. "And it's not always 'You've been lying to us' because I don't think it's that simple. A lot of the time the inmates genuinely believe their story."
I think the general idea that everybody who takes another person's life is a monster is flawed.
Higinio Gonzalez, who appears in season five, received a life sentence for killing a Montana store clerk, Eric Anthony Pavilionis, in 1996. He has been in prison for 27 years.
In the show, he initially claims that he didn't know the gun was loaded. However, after his second interview with the team, he reevaluates his position later in the program.
In the episode, Gonzalez says: "I think I did know, and I just didn't want to come to terms with it. I won't ever be able to heal properly unless I face it."
Hines said: "A lot of us really felt that he believed what he'd told us in his first interview and when we raised the details that we'd found out over the course of filming with him in the second, you can see the moment in him where he's thinking, 'oh my God, did I?'"
She added: "It's a privilege to speak to people about this stuff, and the victims, and the victims' families. Everything we do is with their welfare at the forefront of our concerns."
Filming "I Am A Killer" has taken Hines to places where there's "a lot of social, economic deprivation," which can led to "complicating factors" in the crimes she has covered, and the reasons behind them are often not straightforward.
She said: "I think the general idea that everybody who takes another person's life is a monster is flawed. I think humans, we're all flawed to a certain degree."
