During a recent Gold Derby video interview, senior editor Denton Davidson spoke in-depth with Dominique Fishback (“Swarm”) about her Amazon Prime Video limited series, which is eligible at the 2023 Emmys. Watch the full video above and read the complete interview transcript below.
“Swarm” tells the story of Dre (Fishback), a young woman obsessed with a pop star named Ni’Jah (Nirine S. Brown). Dre’s fandom takes a dark turn as traumas from her past come to the surface. The show was created by Donald Glover and Janine Nabers and streamed all seven episodes on March 17.
“I’m playing the ultimate stan, but I really haven’t stanned anybody to a Nija extent,” Fishback noted in our webchat. “I loved Aaliyah growing up. She’s probably on my wall the most. Aaliyah, Michael Jackson and Jackson 5. When I was 10, I came across ‘The Jacksons: An American Dream’ and it was over for me. That was all I watched all the time.”
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Denton Davidson: Welcome to Gold Derby. I’m senior editor Denton Davidson here with the star of Amazon Prime’s Swarm, Dominique Fishback. I need to start asking. Dominique, who’s your favorite artist?
Dominique Fishback: I would say, it’s so funny, I’m playing the ultimate stan, but I really haven’t stanned anybody to a Nija extent, obviously but I’ve loved Aaliyah growing up. She’s probably on my wall the most. Aaliyah, Michael Jackson, and Jackson 5. When I was 10, I came across The Jacksons: An American Dream and it was over for me. That was all I watched all the time.
DD: So that’s who you would’ve maxed out a new credit card for when you were 18 years old?
DF: No, because the first concert I ever saw was in 2018. I really didn’t, I don’t know. The concept of going to concerts was like, I don’t really want to stand that long, but I am going to see Chloe Bailey tomorrow.
DD: Okay.
DF: [inaudible 00:01:00]. Yeah.
DD: And concerts didn’t cost that much back in the day. I mean, the prices are insane now. So let’s talk about this series. It’s so much fun. It’s horrific, but it’s funny and it’s heartbreaking. And it defies genre because, which is fitting because it’s a limited series, and those categories at the Emmy’s don’t have any genres in them. Donald Glover created this with Janine Nabers. It’s a brilliant script. What were your initial thoughts when you read it and what excited you the most about jumping into this role of Dre?
DF: Yeah. Well, when they told me about the role, they initially wanted me to play Marissa, who is the role that Chloe Bailey plays. And I was too excited by the way they described Dre’s journey. I felt that there was some monster opportunities like Charlize Theron and some Boys Don’t Cry, Hilary Swank, and even some Joker. And I’ve always admired those performances, and I was like, “Man, I want the opportunity to do that.” So they told me about it, and I was like, “Man.” In my mind, I was like, “I can’t play Marissa. I got to play Dre.” So I got off the phone, I told my team, “Hey, listen, I want to thank them for offering Marissa to me, but I really do want to play Dre.” And Donald got on the phone with me. He says, “Hey, you want to play Dre, tell me what’s going on.” And I say, “Well, after you do something like Judas and the Black Messiah and Transformers, what do you do next?” I don’t want to catch up to my own self as an actor. I just want to keep challenging myself. And I am reminded of my inner child, the first version of me that saw these things on TV and said, “I want to act.” And she had no limitations. She wanted to do all genres and all these different things, and I saw the opportunity. And he said, “Well, if that’s the role you want, that’s the role you get.” And so I didn’t have to audition or fight for it, which was really awesome. He said, “I know you could do it.” And-
DD: Wow. And we don’t see a lot of these types of female characters, female serial killers. I mean, you mentioned Charlize Theron in Monster, but how do you get into that mindset then? How do you prepare for a role like this?
DF: Yeah. Honestly, I just decided, normally I journal as all of my characters, and it’s been fairly easy with characters like Deb, because she was a poet and things like that. But with this one, I couldn’t connect with her psychologically on the page. So I decided to journal as myself instead. And identify every moment that made me feel uncomfortable, what excited me, what got me nervous, and I just journaled and wrote everything out. Nothing was too big or small to write down on this paper to try to figure it out. And once I did that, I felt like I was able to clear any judgments and then be a vessel for Dre to come, and the camera picks up everything. So I don’t want the audience to see Dominique at war with the stuff that Dre does, even though I don’t agree with it. So I just had to clear that away and get out of my own way.
DD: Yeah. Janine Nabers, who I mentioned earlier is one of the co-creators, and she described this in an interview I read as a love letter to black women, but it’s quite dark. I mean, so I’m curious, did you interpret it that way or what are your thoughts on the series as a whole?
DF: The series as a whole, I don’t know if I would call it a love letter. Listen, I’m a romantic, so love is very particular to me when I think about love letters. But I understand that it’s a freedom. We don’t see women play characters like this a lot, and we don’t see black women play characters like this at all, really. And so I think it was, yeah, we don’t have to get put in a box of being the wife or being the therapist or the smart friend or the best friend or whatever it is. It’s like, no, actually we want to play jacked up characters who do jacked up things and can show all of the levels that we have in us as artists when we’re given the opportunity.
DD: And we mentioned you played Dre, and she’s this fan of a [inaudible 00:04:50] called Nija. It’s to an unhealthy degree. They call it stan or stalker fan. But we see throughout this journey what the real psychological traumas Dre’s been through in her life. And what I think is so great about what you do is you’re doing all these terrible things, but there’s something in the audience that’s rooting for Dre. We want to see her succeed. So how do you balance that as an actress? How did you get that to come across so well on the screen?
DF: I think I just approach every character from a place that I can understand, which is love. She loves Nija and she loves Marissa. Now, the way that she loves is completely different from how I love and how most of us love, but she does love them. And so that’s what’s relatable about it. And then also on top of that, I think I read this book back when I got out of school, it’s called Auditioning on Camera by Joseph Hacker. And he talked about we don’t have to riddle our characters with shortcomings. If he’s a thief, he’s going to steal regardless of how loyal you play him. If he’s a cheater, he’s going to cheat no matter how good or you play. And so when I did the same thing with Darlene in The Deuce, she’s going to be a sex worker no matter how she’s “played.” So I don’t have to riddle her with things like, oh, she walks like this, or she talks like this because she is that. That’s the given circumstance. So I didn’t have to play Dre as a ruthless serial killer or come with that direction because she is that no matter what. So why don’t I do the thing that is my job as an actor, which is to bring the humanity and to bring a truth out of this character. And so that’s why I tried to do.
DD: And of course, the internet went crazy because Nija’s similarities to Beyonce.
DF: Yeah.
DD: So Beyonce fans, they’re the Bey Hive, and this is called Swarm. Whenever Dre’s at her breaking point, we hear the buzzing of the bees. And so Beyonce’s been tight-lipped about this, but Donald Glover’s a friend of hers. I understand most of the people in the writer’s room had met her before. And I’m curious, had you met her before and were you nervous about the Bey Hive before this came out?
DF: So I did meet her before, but I think that the artist that she is is, I think she understands pushing boundaries, and I think she’s so iconic that why wouldn’t somebody make a piece? I think what Janine talks about often is the idea that for this young black girl who is a voice in music that we all know as a society that gives that feeling of, dang, you know what I’m talking about in this song. It’s like, she’s so iconic. So it could have easily been somebody else if they had done the things, the iconic things Beyonce has done. It’s just that she is that. So I think in that sense, maybe she would appreciate it and not appreciate it necessarily. But understand that artists are taking things and taking it to the next level.
DD: And it also doesn’t say anything bad about Nija or Beyonce-
DF: Yeah. Also, yeah. And also the show is not even about Nija. You barely see who Nija is. It really is about Dre and her love and how she copes with the traumas that she’s had in her life. And really too it’s called Swarm, but Dre, she doesn’t even want Paris Jackson’s character to be along for the ride. She takes everybody out. She’s a one man band. So it’s really not about any particular fandom or the actions thereof. Dre is doing her own thing.
DD: The other thing that sent people crazy over the internet was every episode starts with, “This is not a work of fiction.” So that has sent viewers into a frenzy trying to figure out what’s true, what’s not. What was your reaction to that disclaimer, and what’s your understanding about what that is based on?
DF: Honestly, the sixth episode, documentary episode at the end where Donald comes up and he’s like, “Oh, I’m doing this show with Chloe, Damson, and Dom Fishback, and if you have any information on Andrea Green, call this number.” I was like, “That is really flipping it on his head.” Because I knew that obviously that part wasn’t true. What was true, I learned were that the episodes were based off of articles or rumors on Twitter and things like that that happened in real life, but we don’t even know if some of the things actually happened. So in episode two, there was a guy who essentially helped these girls with a tire and then they killed him. That’s a real article. So they took those things and added Dre into the mix on this wild ride.
DD: One of my favorite episodes was Running Scared, and it’s where Dre ends up with this group of white women led by Eva. And that’s played by Billie Eilish, of course, who has her own share of stans.
DF: Yes.
DD: And she’s a good actress, by the way. But I love that episode because Dre’s so out of her element. We don’t know if this is a cult or they’re hippies or what’s going on, and we also see more of Dre’s background. But she ends up leaving in a panic. She runs over Billie Eilish. Talk about working with Billie a little bit, and if she spoke about being a pop star at all, or if she just stuck in her lane as an actress in your time together.
DF: Honestly, I think if I would’ve asked her more questions about being a pop star, she would’ve told me. She was so open and generous. But for me, I mean, she came to do something else, so I’m not really going to… You do that. I’ll talk about whatever she wants to talk about. And she really wanted to act and get this right. And so I was happy to have that. I’ve been working really hard on the show and I’m getting new actors, new actors in terms of not necessarily green actors, but different actors coming in and outside of the show. And so you hope that people come with that excitement and that will to want to get it right. And she wanted that and she killed it. She really did.
DD: Yeah. And she’s young. I think people forget how young she is.
DF: She’s young.
DD: What are one or two of your favorite scenes or episodes from the season? What was the most special for you?
DF: The monologue in the mall where she’s talking about doing Nija’s mom’s makeup and meeting Nija because we were filming a lot of hours, and the AD even said, this is the first time he was on a set where the lead actor was in every single scene. And so I got up and I was like, “Oh, shoot, that monologue is today?” And I was like, “Man, that’s a long monologue to have to learn.” And then when I got there, they wanted to do it in one shot, and so I just had to kind of go for it. And in the moment I was like, “Oh.” I’m floating on this high for this character. And then the tear fell, and that was the take in the episode is the first take that we did-
DD: Wow.
DF: So that was really fun to get through that monologue and be like, “Oh, shit, I got through it. Thank you.” And then shooting the fourth episode with Billie and the EU scenes and the first one where she’s snapping and she’s like, “What’s your name?” And Kayla. And that was a lot of fun because it really let me tap into a different part of myself as an actor and go there.
DD: The role is so fantastic because by the end, I mean, she’s not a totally different person, but there’s a major evolution-
DF: Yes. And that was also of the best-
DD: That had to be really cool for you.
DF: Yes.
DD: What was that like to just have such an arc as an actress?
DF: It was a gift. I wrote in theater A ONE WOMAN SHOW, but I got to play different characters, but I didn’t imagine that I would get the opportunity on a TV show to do something like that. And so to read that and then have to get that wig, the short cut and really kind of tap in… When I went home for my birthday, I watched the whole show with my friends from high school, and I hung out with a lot of boys that played basketball and football growing up. So they came and they watched the show, and I remember just waiting for that episode and being like, “I learned that from y’all. I learned it from y’all.” When you lick your lips. So when the girl is disappointed, they do the little chin up. So I really just took things that I remember from the guys and just added it to it. So it was just a lot of fun to show that part of what I could do.
DD: And you’re also credited as a producer of the series, so what does that allow you to do? Does that change what creative control you can have over the arc of the character, or what does that allow you to do as an actress?
DF: Yeah, I think that every set is different and everybody’s role as a producer is going to be different. Just for me, I knew that I tend, because I started acting and writing at the same time when I was 15 in the theater company, and so it never was separate from me, character development and character arc. And so I knew that what I was going to bring to Dre was beyond just acting. I cared about the entirety of the whole series, the other characters and why these things are important. And no matter what, whether I was producer or not, I would’ve advocated for the characters in that way. I did that for The Last Days of Ptolemy Grey and Judas and all of those. But I think it gave me a different sense of control. Not control in that way, but over the character, over the fact that I do get to speak and I can say, “Hey, listen, while I don’t think everything has to be the way I say, but I do want to have conversations and I want to make sure that I’m going to be heard.” Because this is the first time that we’re having a black female serial killer. And I respect the audience, I respect my culture, I respect women, and so I want to make sure that my voice is really, really going to be heard.
DD: And finally, you’ve been acting in at least show business for about a decade, so this isn’t something new for you, but you’ve had great roles like BAFTA nomination for Judas and the Black Messiah and other great TV series. But this still is such a break. I mean, it’s such a showcase for you. What has that felt like from a fan’s per… What have you been hearing from fans about it and what has it been like for you to finally just be like, “This is my show. You own this show”?
DF: Thank you. Thank you. It feels good. It feels good to hear my peers as well as the fans talk about, “Oh, we always knew. I always knew that you had it in you or something like that, and I’m just glad to see you get your moment, get your time.” That’s been really, really great. For me, it’s belief, it’s faith and not by sight. It’s a clear manifestation of what I’ve been dreaming for a really long time. I’ve been writing these things out. I’ve been putting it up on my vision boards, for your consideration. All of these things for years and wondering, “Okay, when is my time going to come?” But you stay consistent. You stay true to the art and what you do. And so to have it happen in this way. I remember wanting to be a lead and not getting the opportunity, but then this is so much better than anything I could have gotten before. My face was all over Hollywood and this big billboard and yesterday on Facebook, they was like, you know how you got the 11 years ago today? I wrote this status where I said, “I heard six gunshots outside my window while I’m trying to sleep. No wonder why I run from bullets in my dreams. I can’t see past my Brooklyn residency. Sunset Boulevard seems so far from me.” To look at it 11 years later and to say, “Wow, Dom, you literally, you manifested. You came out of East New York, Brooklyn. You didn’t know, your family wasn’t in the business. Your mom didn’t know how to get you in it. You Googled at 15, free acting programs for kids in New York City because you really wanted to do it, and you just kept going.” So that’s what. It’s just like, wow, I hope that other people follow their dreams like that and they believe because it is possible. And I’m really thankful.
DD: That’s an inspiring note to go out on. And Swarm, it’s such an original story, which can be rare in this business at this point. And it’s streaming right now on Prime Video. Good luck to you, the entire cast and crew at the upcoming Emmy nominations. They’re certainly deserved across the board-
DF Thank you.
DD: Dominique Fishback, thanks for chatting with Gold Derby today.
DF: Thank you so much. It was so much fun. Thank you.
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