Warning! Spoilers for Infinite Frontier #2 below.
Infinite Frontier is fully underway, as the DC Comics event is adding new layers to the publisher's ever-expanding Omniverse that's spun out of the events of Death Metal. The Infinite Frontier series has seen the return of several heroes, including Roy Harper and Jade, while the villainous Darkseid is set to play a significant role in the ongoing storyline.
We talked with Joshua Williamson about coming up with such an ambitious event, the meta nature of the story, how Grant Morrison's Multiversity laid the groundwork for DC's new Omniverse, and that big twist involving Darkseid from Infinite Frontier #2.
Infinite Frontier is probably one of the more ambitious events in recent memory. Would you call it a restructuring of the universe?
Joshua Williamson: I don't want to say restructuring. I mean, it's definitely an event. It's just a big story. The thing I keep saying is that it's really just Act 1 of this really big story we're telling. A lot of what Infinite Frontier does is put things on the table in the places we need them for next year. It's about putting certain things in place so that we can tell other big stories as well.
But at the same time, if somebody wanted to just read this, you would get the emotional arc of all those main characters that you would need. There's five different stories; we set out, and those five stories collide and tell one story. But then also, we see all these other things that we can do next year. I would call it an event, but it's just a different kind of event. We're just not doing anything as big as any other events in the past. I definitely wanted something that was a little quieter and more grounded compared to some of the stuff in the past.
Yeah, definitely an event, I would not call it restructuring, because I'm not as interested in that. I'm interested in just taking the stuff we love that we think is cool, and just moving forward with it. I'm more about moving forward. I've always been a big fan of keeping an eye on the past, but you've got to move forward.
I was really lucky when I started reading DC Comics, in that it was Post-Crisis and they were they were making changes. Hal Jordan went nuts, and we got Kyle. Tim Drake had been Robin at that point for about a year. I'm talking about when I was hardcore reading - before that, I was reading a little here and there, but I think around '91 and '92 is when I started going to comic store every week. Nightfall was starting to happen, and Jean-Paul Valley was Batman. You had Conner coming around as Superboy, and there was Steel.
There were all of these new legacy characters popping up, and the idea of legacy was getting pushed really hard at that time. I was really lucky that when I was really getting into DC, a lot of that generational legacy stuff of taking these characters to another level was happening. So, my view of DC has always been that way. It's always been about that; it's about moving forward. That's mostly what I'm interested in with Infinite Frontier: all this cool stuff happened, and we love that stuff. We should definitely recognize that stuff, but let's move forward. Let's do new cool stuff. To me, that's what this is about.
What I really like about Secret Files is how I feel vibes from Infinity Inc, Blackest Night, and Crisis, but it's still pushing forward. It's acknowledging the past in a really interesting way and bringing in so many characters that have been sidelined. What was it like to have a clean slate?
Joshua Williamson: I think, in my career and DC, I've been pretty lucky in that I came in during Rebirth. Rebirth was about getting things back to the core, and that was in some ways a clean slate. Obviously, there was stuff going on, but it was definitely a lot like, "This is what we're doing with this, and we're moving forward from here." So, I got lucky with that.
Looking at that, and learning from that, and looking at what we've done at DC for the last five years: when Death Metal was ending, it really was this blank slate of what's going to happen after Death Metal. We were getting to talk with editorial, and I feel like I got lucky again to be involved in those conversations from the beginning. To be there in those early calls and early meetings about what Infinite Frontier was going to be.
But just being able to look at it and say all of these things happened... One of things I've always been obsessed with, particularly in the last five years, is slowing things down for a minute and letting characters actually just react to what's happening around them. We're always moving so fast, and I think with some of these events we move so quickly that it's hard for the characters to just slow down for a minute. Some of my favorite stories at DC are some times when they let them actually deal with what just happened and actually react to it.
That's what I wanted to do here: they went through a crazy thing multiple times over the last few years. Let's actually show people how they're experiencing it now, and how they're dealing with it. That was really a priority for me, to take in all that stuff. Because I'm a fan of DC, and I've been a fan for DC for so long, I think us as readers also have to have a moment to deal with it all. That's what this was about, us just kind of slowing down and looking at it.
How do I feel about it? I don't know, it's always weird. I think that because I'm so embedded in it and comics are monthly, I don't get as much time as I maybe could to think about it. I'm just moving. It's like when the Flash ended; I didn't really get time to sit down and think about it, because I was already working on Future State. I was already working on Robin. I had other books that haven't been announced yet that I was already working on. I'm moving no matter what already. I don't get to live in it as much as I would like to at times, to think about what it feels like.
But I try to think about the perspective of the characters and what they're experiencing. And then I do get a little meta with it sometimes, letting the characters actually just say, "Hey, this is what's happening." Like with Chase in issue #2, where she's talking to Batman and Superman. She's sort of just asking the questions I think that we would ask. It's very in her character to just be like, "What just happened? Can you tell me what just happened?" And question it.
I'm personally a big Grant Morrison fan, and I love seeing the re-exploration of all these Earths. What was it like to revisit some characters who haven't been seen in a really long time?
Joshua Williamson: Again, I'm a big DC fan and of the work that Grant did on Multiversity. Grant left so many amazing pieces out there for people to play with and, for the most part, they haven't played with them. I think Peter J. Tomasi would touch on pieces of it in Superman, and I think there were pieces that Scott and James touched on with Justice League and with some of the events that we worked on. But every time I would look at Multiversity, I was always just like, "There's so much here." And if you ever talk to Grant, they want us to play with that stuff. They really want us to go out there and take those pieces and run with them, that's why they put them on the table to begin with. But I think people get really precious about them because it's Grant.
For me, I wanted to play with those toys. Listen, I want to play with all the toys DC. With this book, it's like, "What about this character? What about this cool character? There's this character I've always wanted to use and haven't been able to." In issue #2, there's a there's a character that comes in that I actually had wanted to use for years. And I was like, "Oh, wait, I can actually use them in a way that makes sense right here? Let's go for it. Let's do it."
It's just been fun to run around and grab as many of the characters that I think would be cool to use as we can.
One of the panels that struck me was seeing Stan Lee's Just Imagine Justice League roster.
Joshua Williamson: Yeah, that's in the Multiversity handbook. It's in the guidebook, and I use that guidebook [daily]. It's right here. I have it bookmarked; I have all these different sequences I need bookmarked. I have parts of Multiversity bookmarked; things I know I want to reference and write. I probably look at this daily at this point.
What is it like working with Xermanico?
Joshua Williamson: Yeah, I love working with Xermanico. They are incredibly thoughtful. I love when I give a script to the artists and they come back with just thoughts and questions, and they want to go back and forth.
I went to art school, so I've always been hanging out artists for most of my adult life. I basically have been close friends with mostly artists and talking with artists, so I'm used to that kind of back and forth. When I work with Howard Porter on anything, he and I talk everything on the phone before he reads a script. Riley Rossmo and I will talk about stuff on the phone before I write anything. Even Gleb Melnikov and I'll go back and forth on stuff for Robin.
There are scenes in Robin - there's a scene in issue #3 that just came out this last week where I was like, "Hey, I have some thoughts on this. What do you think?" And he was like, "Well, here's what I think Damian would do." And I'm like, "You're totally right. That's the scene," and then I would write it
With Xermanico, we kind of go back and forth. But for the most part, I give him the scripts, and he will do the roughs. He'll have all of these questions and all these thoughts, and it is awesome. It's one of those things where if I could work with them forever, I would. And they understand it. Gleb is like this too, and Howard, where you're talking to the artist and you're going back and forth on stuff - there's the moment you start realizing you're developing a shorthand on shared references. If we're talking about something, and he's like, "Oh, you mean like in this comic? Or in this story? What about this story? Kind of like this?" I'm like, "Oh, you know all that stuff? Yes. Exactly like that."
It's awesome. I love working with them a lot. They're working on issue #6 right now, and the pages are great. People will be really surprised. I feel bad, because there's a part in issue #6, where there's multiple scenes with a million characters. I just wrote a long email apologizing, but then I made some cheats later in the issue so it helps them save time.
What was it bringing Roy Harper back to the forefront? Because he's been away for a bit.
Joshua Williamson: I feel it was just really good timing. When we were looking at the plan for Death Metal, Scott wanted to bring all these characters back using the Black Lantern ring. I started looking at some of the characters, and then I was just like, "Hey, can I just bring Roy back?" I was looking at the math of it, and I'm like, "There's an opportunity to bring Roy back. I have story on how it makes sense."
Because this is the thing about bringing characters back from the dead. You can't just bring them back from the dead and be like, "Alright, go into the world! See you later." You've got to have a plan for them. With Roy, I had an idea of, "What if we did this?" Even the stuff that's in issue #1 with the Black Lantern ring, not everything is easy as it seems. By the time we get to issue #3, I think they start revealing more about the real deal with why he has the ring. As we go, you'll see more pieces to the story behind that.
But it was just a cool opportunity, and he just fit that role. He just fit the role of what we needed, and the emotional arc that he was going to go through of having a bit of survivor's guilt and dealing with some of the suffering he had felt. Then we get to do cool stuff with them after, and we get to go and send them on their way in cool ways. We get to set these characters up with cool stories later.
I actually want to talk about Psycho Pirate. The meta stuff in there is just wild.
Joshua Williamson: Dan [Watters] really nailed it. With Secret Files, I pulled together that team of writers because I knew them all, I liked all their work, and I knew they all knew DC history really well. I pulled them together, and I knew who I wanted to do which stories. With Dan particularly, I really wanted him to do Psycho Pirate because I think the style of writing he does will fit really well with that character. He and I talked out the ideas of what it could be, and he really just ran with it.
I remember he gave me his page breaks on it, because we talked about it a few times. And he's like, "Well, here's how I think it will be." I remember getting to the second half, and I was just like, "Dud, yes. This is it." I became very protective of that part, but Dan knocked it out of the park. He really went for what we wanted, where I was like, "We've got to tell a story that says who Psycho Pirate is. It has to be scary."
And Dan and I talked about Animal Man. Psycho Pirate is an interesting character, because I think post-Crisis they just become a meta character. That's just it; they are a meta character. And then the stuff that Grant was doing feeds into it. Even when you read the JSA Classified story with Psycho Pirate and Power Girl, there's a lot of meta stuff in there. I always liked that character; I thought the idea that was so fascinating. It comes up a couple times throughout.
I couldn't believe that Barry and Psycho Pirate had not seen each other since Crisis. They have not seen each other, because Barry was dead. Psycho Pirate died in Infinite Crisis, so when Barry came back Psycho Pirate was off the map. They just haven't seen each other. When I stumbled on that, I was like, "Oh, man. I just figured out so much stuff about this story."
That's what's in issue #1. Psycho Pirate and Barry are together in issue #1, and there's a story of what's up with them. And then there's other plans for Psycho Pirate next year? But it's the idea that they met, and Psycho Pirate's viewpoint of things is very interesting. There's some cool stuff coming with him.
But what's interesting about Psycho Pirate for me - many things about Psycho Pirate are interesting - is that he got locked up not just for being a villain. He would tell people about the multiverse, and they'd be like, "Oh, look at this crazy guy. Put him in Arkham." And everybody knows now that he was telling the truth this whole time, and nobody really paid attention to that. To me - and this will come up through the story - the multiverse is dangerous. That's one thing that Bones says. He's like, "This is a very dangerous thing. It's something we need to look at, and look at seriously." And Psycho Pirate feels the exact same way.
Especially if you think about the fact that Psycho Pirate's world is gone. That world as it existed does not exist anymore. Even when we have the new Earth-2 and all that stuff, that world is gone. What does that mean for those characters? And what does it mean to for Earth-2? Psycho Pirate is definitely angry about some of those pieces, and he's the only one that knows. Other people are starting to figure it out, but he's the one that understands that piece.
I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the return of Darkseid. DC's Big Bad is not what you'd expect here. He's chilling on Earth Omega?
Joshua Williamson: Yeah, he's on Earth Omega. We'll get into it as we go on - like, in issue 6 we'll reveal why - but when the multiverse was rebuilt, that's basically where he woke up. Because when Death Metal was ending, Darkseid was actually down in the dark multiverse. So, when the multiverse was rebuilt, he found himself on this planet; on Earth Omega.
You'll notice that everybody's like, "We don't know what this is." Even Barry goes there and is like, "There's no vibration. What does that even mean?" Darkseid knows what that means. He knows what's really going on with Earth Omega; he's the only one. All of his actions are centered around that.
He's using Psycho Pirate for his own means - and others, but you'll see as things go on what he's up to.
What was it like helping to reintroduce Calvin Ellis at a time where it seems like DC is pushing towards a Black Superman in their cinematic universe?
Joshua Williamson: I don't really feel like I reintroduce them, in a way. Because they were in Tomasi's Superman. They were in some of Death Metal, and they played a part in some of the stuff that James was doing. I feel like I'm just carrying the torch - I'm definitely carrying the torch in a bigger way, because they're obviously a star of this book.
I'm really glad that we're able to do it. I've been talking to Brandon Thomas a lot about that character, because he wrote the story in Secret Files; talking about who that character was, and what we wanted to do with them moving forward. I think it's cool.
Again, I think sometimes people get nervous touching the things that Grant laid out on the table. It's too bad it took too long for us to get Calvin into a major role, and I'm just glad we're able to now. I really like the character a lot, and I think there's a lot of interesting stuff with Calvin. His family, the stuff he does on his world, and the idea that he's president.
I really like writing that character; I like writing them together. They're really fun to write together, but I'm just glad we're able to do more with Calvin now.
I can't imagine the balancing act of putting those Infinite Frontier pieces in place, but that issue 2 ending had me was truly stunning.
Joshua Williamson: Normally, I don't like ending - without getting into spoilers - things on an explosion. But with Captain Atom, I feel like it works. It's more about what he says going into it that makes you feel anxiety.
There's some really cool stuff with Darkseid coming. I think that Darkseid is such an interesting character, and I think for a long time we've made him into a bit of a bruiser in some ways. So, I wanted to bring him back to that person behind the scenes.
He's this Old Evil that's been around for so long. I think he has a calm understanding of the way things are gonna play out, and he's patient. I would rather show that. Now, there is definitely reasons for urgency, and throughout the story you'll see why Darkseid is doing what he's doing now. But I really like that character, and there's some stuff coming up next year.
I made sure that you never really see Darkseid actually fighting anybody, because I feel like the moment someone fights Darkseid it needs to be a really big deal. But the first time we see Darkseid actually fight again, it's a really cool scene.
Infinite Frontier #2 is in comic book stores now!
